Bp Raphael Thattil, Shamshabad

What meaning do you give to the tragic suffering of Jesus Christ on the cross?
Suffering is very often counted as a punishment, a kind of curse. Christ has given a different meaning for suffering; suffering is neither a punishment nor a curse; rather, it is a possibility. In this matter I have great appreciation for Pope Francis. He keeps saying that every problem gives a new possibility, every problem is a horizon. The suffering of Jesus ends in resurrection, which is a solution to our misconception of suffering as a punishment. Sufferings for Christ is a possibility. Once Jesus was buried in the tomb, His disciples believed that everything was finished, but the tomb became a womb, and the big celebration of the Holy Week is all about the rising it witnessed – Easter, the resurrection. The message of the Holy Week is that every suffering is much more than a mere bother, it’s a possibility. Every suffering has to be seen in reference to the suffering and death of Jesus. This suffering should be for us a way to come out, come out to the glory of life. Jesus told us very clearly during His suffering: I came here to be a witness to truth, light and life. These are certain fundamental values, and suffering is to be understood in that context. Suffering brought on by a crime is the real suffering, but that is not what we see in the bible. A man suffering for truth and justice gives life and light. You always have lots of suffering people, but are they suffering for a cause? Are they undergoing the suffering as a consequence of upholding a value? One of the most important moments in the Passion Week is when Jesus is presented to a crowd which cries that Jesus be killed. Pilate then responds, ‘Ecce Homo’ – here is the man. I think it’s a symbolic event that gives strength to many to undertake suffering for a right cause. Suffering creates the greatness of life.

Are you saying that once you take a stand in life, a stand which is commitment to one value or the other, then you will have to suffer, you will be persecuted, you will be tormented?
Definitely, because that is what Jesus’ life shows us. Jesus was unjustly executed, but His execution never became the end of the story. His execution created a new opening.

If you read the Greek tragedies, you have for example Prometheus of Aeschylus. It is a big drama that tells the story of one who stood for humankind, a man who gifted fire to humankind. He has been nailed to the rocks and so is eternally suffering. The story of Prometheus is an imaginative epic drama. But Marx called Prometheus a saint and martyr of the philosophical Calendar. And Goethe in a poem suggested that Prometheus pre-figured Christ. Do you agree?
Very often we don’t understand the meaning of the symbols used at the Holy Week celebration. From Palm Sunday to Easter Sunday we have hours of prayers and celebration of the symbols. But do we really assimilate the true meaning of these symbols? We have some kind of disciplined life during the whole Lenten Season, and Easter marks a break from all discipline. I am not against the Easter celebration; it is a celebration of the victory of values, and not just eating, drinking and making merry. Our system has gone off-track. We seldom celebrate the victory of values, the victory of light, and the victory of life. I think we should project those dimensions of Easter Sunday.

Recently, the Supreme Court came out with a verdict on euthanasia. The verdict and the tone of the judges show that suffering has been seen a very big evil and has to eliminated at all costs, and therefore the unending suffering of a patient has to be stopped by killing. There are so many homes where you will find perennially bedridden people who are taken care of by their relatives. That caring is unbelievably, heroically done by men and women. How do you see the suffering of bedridden people and the care they should get?
I do not understand what the court meant by a comfortable decent death. Decency does not make comfort. There are people who are suffering and you have beloved people who are taking care of them. I still remember the death of my mother. My ninety-one-year-old mother lay twenty days on sickbed. She was never taken to the Intensive Care Unit, because the doctor said no medicine or doctor could help her. Taking her to the Intensive Care Unit would have been a way of shielding suffering from her children. So we did not take her to the Intensive Care Unit. We took her to the house and stood around her. We prayed and cared for her until she died. When she died, we cried, not because we lost her; rather, because we could not reward her with the same life which she had given us.

Is it not in suffering that the greatness and the sublimity of man shines?
Very true. Sometimes we are moved by utilitarian outlook and consumerism. I am the tenth child of my parents. Who can afford so big a family today? Who has the money to support ten or twelve children? But now we are expanding that concept a little further. Whatever is not useful, whatever is not comfortable, should be eliminated. I think here we are pointing at the sublime death of Christ; the greatness of suffering. The soldier who was the custodian of His execution cried aloud: This man is indeed the Son of God.

Many people are concerned solely about comfort and peace. Is that not the root cause of this wrong attitude towards suffering?
The death on the cross is a glorious death. Some great people died gloriously; for example Rani Maria from Pulluvazhy. When she died, all cried, but when she was beatified, even Samandar Singh was there on the stage. Samandar told me personally that ‘when she died I came to life, I am not yet baptized, but I am a Christu Bhakta. When she died, I watched her face to make sure that she is dead. But I saw the face of Christ.’ Sometimes, the charismatic movement gives an unnecessary stress on painting suffering as a punishment and curse.

Women wept seeing Jesus carrying the cross. In the Old Testament we see a small book called Lamentations. What is the meaning of crying and lamenting?
A sinful woman cried and washed the feet of Jesus. He recognised the repentance of that woman. He said: she loved me more than anybody else. Her sin became a reason for her to repent. Jesus was betrayed three times. Peter looked at Jesus and wept. Peter wept bitterly. So beautiful an expression! I think that is the glory of Peter.

Philosopher Derrida says, only when you weep, you see the truth. Do you agree with him?
Very often we find fault with other people, we never find fault with ourselves. We are able to stand for the truth because we love the truth that we see in ourselves. Weeping means weeping about our failure, weeping about our misdoings. Some have the courage to weep with other people, in front of other people. One of the core themes of the New Testament is compassion. Compassion comes from recognising the truth. A woman who was caught in adultery was brought before Jesus. She was caught red-handed. Jesus told those who brought her to Him: ‘let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone.’ Nobody had the courage to stone the woman. They just dispersed. Jesus then told her: Go in peace.

The beauty of Augustine’s Confession lies in the bitter crying it describes. What does it tell the leaders as well as ordinary Christians?
The Lenten Season starts with a beautiful hymn in the Syro-Malabar Liturgy: “Kanneerarutharum?” – who is there to give me tears?
Derrida said: Only when your eyes are wet with tears, you will see truth on the other side. Truth of oneself is always a wailing truth. Do you think that truth is always made to suffer in this world?
Very true. That is why Jesus said before His passion: I came to give witness to the truth. Pilate asked Him: What is truth? I think that these values are the values of holiness.

What is resurrection for you? What meaning does it have for the world?
Resurrection is not just about meditating on the risen Lord. Resurrection is a participation in the resurrection of the Lord. We show the risen Lord to the people to the accompaniment of ringing bells. But we never become partakers or shareholders of the risen Lord.

What do you mean by being a partaker in the resurrection?
It means the joy of suffering for truth, the joy of standing for life. When we see people who are not corrupted, who stand for the truth, who suffer for the truth, then we have a feeling that there is a continuation of the risen Lord. I heard recently that the Holy Father is going to declare Latin American bishop Oscar Romero a saint. Romero is a symbol of resurrection. He was brutally killed. He was misunderstood and misinterpreted, but The Holy Father has decided to honour him, and thus continues the feast of resurrection. Easter is not a mere celebration, it is a celebration of the values of resurrection.