To hear Catholicism’s most famous former inmate tell the story, the experience of being in jail actually offers improbable insights for Church management, perhaps especially managing money.

In a new video released on July 14, Australian Cardinal George Pell, who spent more than 400 days in jail after a conviction for a sexual abuse charge that was eventually over-turned by his country’s High Court, said it was important for him behind bars not only to pray but also to maintain a healthy daily routine.” Basically, we believe that Grace works through nature,” he said in the video. “And it’s one thing to have a spiritual vision, which comes from Christ. Another thing is to have a plan or a project. Of course, to implement those things you need managerial skills: Human capacity which is trained for good and godly purposes.”