Fr A. Kulandai Swamy Ofm Cap
You are a lawyer and social activist. Why did you choose these roles?
I am working with the most needy who deserve my service. Jesus also served them, and as His follower, I need to work for their upliftment, which is the prime motive and goal of my life. By giving a helping hand to them, it may be possible to give some meaning to their earthly existence. That is why I decided to work for the downtrodden. It is more of a free legal aid that I provide.
What are the specific fields in which you work in Tamil Nadu?
Mostly, I am working among dalits, refugees, and tribals. I take up only the cases that come from these three types of people. I don’t take up any other issue. I do it freely with the help of my own lawyer friends and professors.
Are you totally engaged in providing legal services?
No, legal help is only one of the things I do. I also have other activities aimed at affirming and demanding their rights in the form of conducting rallies and protests, writing petition to the government, bringing government officials to the people, helping them to hold public meetings and even taking students or professors or anybody else for an on-the-spot study so that they can get to know the people and their woes and speak for them.
Why are dalits and tribals living in such pitiable conditions even so many years after independence?
The root cause is corruption. There are a lot of schemes introduced by the government to help them, but nothing reaches them because of corruption practised by politicians, leaders and government officials. There are a few here and there who are upright and honest. It is with their help only that we are able to move ahead. Even they do not know the dire straits these people are in. They don’t go to the concerned spot at all. Without visiting places where people live, they decide things sitting in their chairs.
Isn’t the caste system also a big hindrance?
Caste system is an undeniable fact. But if someone really wants to help them, they can bypass even the caste system. The only thing needed is that you serve the deserving people in any caste. There are deserving people and therefore I should go and do that. If I have a heart to help, caste will not matter.
Besides corruption, what else is hurting the poor?
Corruption is just one of the reasons. There are other factors like power and profit involved.
How does the Church see your activities?
Even the Church doesn’t understand the real struggles of the people. There a few individuals within the Church who are ready to serve. But others consider them as terrorists and social disrupters. They do not worry about their faithful. They are not faithful to their religious call. Despite all these, I can still say those who have a heart will work for the disadvantaged. The Church as an institution or as a structure never decides. They decide that we will do this work or that work but never translate it in action. Their decisions remain on paper.
You are a Capuchin priest belonging to the Franciscan congregation. How do they see you as a confrere?
Some view my activities with suspicion, but others are supportive, because our Franciscan spirit in its core is simplicity. Simplicity tells us to be with simple people and empower them. I admire St Francis and his simplicity. My congregation supports me in many ways. I don’t find my congregation is a hindrance to my work. They are also doing the same thing. There will always be a few in power who want to maintain the status quo. But it is never a hindrance to my enthusiasm.
What gives you the daring to do this work?
It is the spirit of Jesus and St Francis that inspires me. Secondly, married people, who, although they have a family to maintain, want to do something for others, are also a source of inspiration. Another source of encouragement is the poor dalits or tribals or refugees who give me a strong impetus.
How do you appreciate Pope Francis?
I admire him very much. He is able to influence and shake even the secular world with his pro poor ideas. Even my communist friends write highly about him in their newsletters.
There are people who accuse the Pope of being a Marxist?
Marxism is nothing but about helping the poor. Even non-believers appreciate his writings and his way of approach. I think he gives a new space for the existing Church.
How do you see the Pope vis-à-vis the structural hierarchical Church?
Pope Francis sometimes feels it is very hard to break the existing structure and bring about a change. Let us move, change will ultimately come, that is his attitude, and that is how he works. In course of time, things will change.
A lot of bishops, cardinals and ordinary people say that this Pope came to destroy the Church? What is your response?
Some people fear that, with his style of papacy, the power structure of the Church will be destroyed and brought down. Those who are after power are afraid. Others really appreciate that the Church has become alive now. This Church will definitely live for a longer time. I think this is the Church that Jesus wants and the people also want. A few people who are mad after power may say that he will bring down the Church to its worst condition ever. But, he has in fact become the vitality of the Church.
You are also working among refugees. The Pope is opening his doors to the Muslims who are running away from war. There is lot of opposition to it all over Europe and America. How do you see the Western world’s attitude towards the refugee problem?
There are, first world, second world and third world, and I would say the refugee world is the fourth world. The problem has worsened due to globalization. As long as you are not able to respond to and abolish globalization, refugees will keep increasing. We have to seriously look into these issues. Otherwise it will become a big problem for the Church also. Recently, President Trump made a statement that America won’t help refugees any more. But we need to help. You cannot make discrimination on the basis of religion or nationality. You have to go beyond all those differences and welcome refugees. We need to respond to this particular issue. We cannot simply avoid it. On the one side we need to welcome them and on the other side we need to annihilate the causes that create refugees. Merely welcoming refugees will not solve the crisis.
Do you mean to say globalization is implicitly a war?
Exactly, that is very clear.
Whose war is it?
It is of the rich people and a few first world countries. They want to have total control over the world. They initiate and fuel wars. Once there is a war, automatically these people go there for settling the issues and then take control over these countries after the people there become totally depend on them. First world countries are involved in initiating wars in every part of the world.
Capitalism or market economy is a creation of Protestant system of faith and action. Max Weber is of that line. Whereas there are authors who say that Christianity and Marxism are two heresies that have their origin in the Jewish religion, both of them are facing existential threats. Self interest in market economy and private property is globalised. Do you think this is going to make
Christianity and its Judeo Christian humanism disappear?
There is much truth in what you said, but I wouldn’t say Christianity and Marxism are on the deathbed. They will give way to new forms. Globalization will not last long, because there will come some movement to fight against it. I have tremendous belief that even Christianity can change and become a new movement. In the same way, Marxism can take another shape. I would say they are not two different ideologies, but the same ideology with different approaches or methodologies.
Do you think they have both basically originated from Judeo-Christian humanism?
They both have some connections with Judaism. But each has got its own individuality and uniqueness. So we need not necessarily think that they are completely rooted in Judaism. When Jesus started a movement, it had no connection with Judaism. He was able to move towards the suffering masses. Jesus’ movement was independent and unique. It inspired Jesus’ movement, but it has no root in Judaism. In fact, it is contrary to Judaism. Therefore I would say history will repeat itself. Someone like Jesus will begin another movement and that will challenge globalization and capitalism.
Religious congregations all over the world are slowly dying. Will religious life takeon new forms and ways?
They may not die, but may reinvent themselves by taking on new forms. What we prescribed or designed some years back may not be applicable and relevant today, because we have new life styles. We need a new way of being the Church and we need a new way of being religious. We should always look for what is good. Therefore, if we don’t adapt to the new system, we will face a lot of problems. There are people who are able to adapt themselves according to the need of the time. That is why we should be open enough to accept today’s realities. Don’t think this or the other is the only way to be religious or even to be the Church. There are various ways available. Therefore, we need to adapt according to the need of time.
You are working among the downtrodden people. Women in general are the underprivileged of society. Don’t you think they are the same even within the Church?
Religious women are also underprivileged. Dalit, tribal and refugee women undergo more of such experiences. They face a lot of cruelties.
Why do you pray and what do you pray for?
Returning from activity, I come and thank the Lord. I reflect how I went about. I could see Jesus is with me and St Francis is guiding me. Usually, I don’t pray before doing something. Only after doing what I wanted to, I come, just sit and reflect the things I did, whether they were right or wrong, how I was able to respond to situations or to go about my work with presence of mind. I don’t fix a particular time for prayer; rather, I see God’s presence within me. At crucial times, I may not be able to even respond all of a sudden, but when something strikes me, I immediately respond in the right way, because in the presence of mind God is alive and active.
