“Christ always interpreted law for man.
In my whole professional life, I have made
an effort to interpret law for man.”

Justice (Retd.) Kurian Joseph

How are you able to live both as a devout Catholic and a genuine citizen?
A genuine Christian will be a genuine citizen, because being a genuine Catholic obligates you to love your country and stand up for it as well. Loving our country as a law abiding, loyal and faithful citizen is very much part of the Catholic faith. Love of the country would also mean abiding by the Constitution and the laws. That is the first fundamental duty of a citizen as well. So, follow the just laws. If any law is unjust, you must protest against it and take recourse to legal remedies for it. You have a responsibility to always abide by the Constitution and to respect the rule of law, because ours is a country that is governed by the cardinal principle of rule of law. There is a law for everything and everything is governed by that law. Therefore, violating the law is commission of a sin as well since that violation negates the rights of others, affecting his dignity as a citizen of the country and as a child of God.

Some call Christianity a foreign religion. Is that right? How do you see the distinction made between foreign and native?
Christianity is not foreign. On what basis can you say Christianity is foreign? Do we take the same approach for theories of science originated in foreign countries? India has given birth to many religions. We also welcomed Christianity and other religions. The preamble of the Constitution says ours is a secular country, and Article 25, which is a fundamental right, speaks about freedom of conscience, which assures every citizen, subject to public order, health and morality, the right to believe in any religion or even not to believe in any religion at all. If you believe in a religion, you can practise, profess and propagate that religion. The beauty of Indian secularism is that it welcomes all religions. It recognizes the great role the religion can play in moulding a responsible citizen. Our country is not of any particular religion. Our country is also not against any religion. There is no difference between a religion originated within India and a religion that has welcomed and has taken deep roots in India. As far as religion is concerned, it’s a matter of faith, which is a universal concept. And what is universal cannot be confined to its country of origin. This is all the more so for India since we believe and practise Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam, which means world is one family.

You were one of the four Supreme Court Justices who protested against some issues related to the Supreme Court. What is the role of protest in Christian spirituality?  
Fighting for justice is certainly a value that is recognized in the Gospel. So, wherever you find injustice, you will always stand up and speak out against it and do your best to get it rectified. It’s a corrective role, which a responsible citizen has to play. Peaceful protests like civil disobedience, satyagraha have always been the modus operandi in such situations.Peaceful protest, dissent, raising one’s voice, standing up and speaking out against unjust laws or unjust orders or unjust regulations have great democratic value. People always see protest as it is practised in politics. In From the perspective of one’s faith, non-violence is what Christ taught us and showed us in practice. Righteous indignation is the right expression that can be attributed to Jesus Christ for raising protest and dissent. In Christian spirituality, protest has a role, provided it arises from righteous indignation and is practised in the right way, without causing any scandal or adversely affecting one’s faith.When the motive is pure and holy, protest and dissent displayed will also be pure, holy, constructive and thus pleasing to God.

The Amazon Synod recommended an Amazonian Rite. Do you think the Church must be rooted in the local Culture?
Every religion is rooted in its culture. The role of religion is actually to take people to God. The people have to see it expressed in their respective cultural background. Culture certainly has a role to play. The integration of faith into culture and adaptation of culture into faith are both equally important for the people to avoid any inner conflict in practising faith.

How is Love of God and love of man related to you? Is humanism in Christianity is just a transcendental outlook?
Love of God and love of man are the two sides of the same coin of faith. Therefore, what hurts another hurts God and conversely, what helps another adds to the glory of God. Christ’s teaching is crystal clear in that regard; man is the seen presence of God on earth since he is created in his own image. Therefore, without respecting your fellow men you cannot be a genuinely spiritual person. Humanism in Christianity is the mandate of living faith. One cannot also be a responsible citizen without humanism since our Constitution which is the holy book of the country stands for dignity of the individual and fraternity, in the very preamble.

What is prayer to you? How do you pray?
Prayer to me is connecting myself and the humanity with God. Being in union with God, I gather strength to be in union with the humanity, without any selfish motive. To be in union with God, one has to be holy, since the God is holy. Holiness means having a clean conscience and doing the will of God, surrendering one’s own will. The strength I have gained is mainly from the daily Eucharist and daily Rosary and all my personal prayers. I have always prayed to Holy Spirit for wisdom, particularly in discharge of my professional duties. I continue even today to pray for the lawyers, the litigants, the Judges and all those who are connected with administration of justice. I also pray for wisdom to all those who rule the nation.

As a devout catholic, have you felt any conflict between your faith and the Constitutional obligations?
I have never found any conflict between my faith and my citizenship. I am a dutiful citizen of my country and a faithful in my Church. I don’t find any need for conflict between my faith and my citizenship. The main reason is the gospel values that I find in the Constitution of India. The Constitution stands for justice – economic, social and political. This is exactly the teaching of Jesus also. Jesus Christ always stood for justice. He proclaimed justice, preached and practised justice in his life. Justice was not just an ideal for Jesus Christ; it was the ground reality of the kingdom of God. Without justice there is no kingdom of God. So, as a Catholic, if I strive to be in the kingdom of God, it becomes my mission to establish the kingdom of God by preaching and practising justice and implementing justice, whether it be in the social, economic or political arena. If I see any injustice and remain silent, it’s a sin. If I practise injustice to my fellow citizens, it is a sin. If I do not practise justice in my social and economic dealings with my fellow citizens, it’s a sin and if that is a sin, then, I am not a true catholic, because anyone who lives in sin does not belong to the kingdom of God. So, if you are a true Catholic, you must be a true Indian, practising the value or virtue of justice.

In the preamble of the constitution the second value upheld is liberty – liberty of thought, expression, belief, faith and worship. The concept of the kingdom of God announced by Jesus Christ also upholds liberty – liberty of thought, expression, belief, faith and worship. It’s not the liberty to commit sin. It’s the liberty of free thought and free expression, because God gave us a freewill. It all depends on how I exercise my liberty of choice. I have the freedom to choose right or wrong, virtue or vice. My destiny depends upon the choice I make. That’s again the liberty that the country speaks of, a liberty which does not hurt your fellow citizen, a liberty that upholds the dignity of fellow citizen. That is why St. John reminds us that, if you do not respect fellow citizens and ignore them, there is no point in going and worshiping the unseen God. The visible presence of God is your fellow citizen. If you ignore him and worship the unseen God, that is hypocrisy. That is the concept of liberty which Jesus spoke of and which our country is built upon. Then, the Constitution promotes among all the citizens fraternity, assuring the dignity of the individual, the unity and integrity of the nation. The dignity of the individual was the greatest teaching of Jesus Christ. Jesus identified with the least, the last and the lost, whom society thought of as having no dignity. He chose to be with them. He chose to have a preferential option for them. Jesus showed through his life that they share the same dignity. It is the same dignity my country asks me to practise.Everyone has a duty to be a responsible citizen of the country. Responsible citizen of the country would mean a law-abiding citizen conscious of his duties towards the nation and fellow citizens, as mandated in the Fundamental Duties in the Constitution of India. Respecting the country means respecting its Constitution and respecting the rule of law and the unity and the integrity of the nation.This is precisely the meaning of what Jesus said, “Give unto Caesar what is due to Caesar, give unto God what is due to God.” Therefore, I can be a devoted Catholic in terms of my faith and I can be a responsible citizen of my great nation, India, as well. There is absolutely no conflict involved.

Who is Christ for you? What is in Christ that is most challenging and endearing to you?
The most endearing aspect of Christ to me is that Christ always interpreted law for man and never, man for law. In my whole professional life, I have made this effort to interpret law for man. Law and justice are two different concepts. If the Court finds that there is lack of justice in any law, it should be declared unjust. So, finding justice and using it for the upliftment of man, for liberating man, for liberating a society that is otherwise under the clutches of an unjust order and oppressive structures is the challenge Jesus has shown to us. We have to interpret law keeping that in mind. Leaving to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s, is the distinction Jesus always made. He kept away from what is Caesar’s and he never kept away from what is of God. He never took Caesar’s to God and he never took God’s to Caesar. That was the balance Jesus struck. Keeping the same today is a big challenge according to me. In the present society, we are always tempted to take Caesar’s to God and take God’s to Caesar. Jesus withstood these two temptations. He always maintained the correct balance between these two – as the son of God and as a responsible citizen of the country.